Things to think about



  • edited January 2018
    I'll start laying a base. It'll be today or tomorrow before there's anything to see. I'm aware today and tomorrow are relative, but as an American, I just assume the world circles around New York, which we Chicagoans resent tremendously, anyway soon.

    Once done. I'll post here. I suggest that we sign up with our slightly gentler than Stalin alter-egos. I'm glad you guy feel the same as I about separating the role from the poet. Admins and mods should appear aloof and like it or not, that title seems to give the bearer more weight anytime they post. On MWC I could alway count on you guys calling my shit, "shit", but I could already sense deference from newbies once I became a mod. I want nothing to do with that.

    I do think we want a "Founders" designation for our poet egos, as it's a simple statement of what we are. I'll also make sure we have a private corner to commiserate. I'm picturing the smoke-filled teacher's lounges fo my youth.

    Cliques are unavoidable. Lets do what we can to keep them from becoming factions. :P 

    I'll be build the base, but I hope someone else, or others will take up the task of fleshing out the original guidelines and such. I'll lift what I can, so we are not starting from scratch.

    Mark, I'm looking into the private Workspace area. This may not be a day one feature, I may have to write that bit from scratch if I can't find something off the rack. I searched and didn't see much. 

    All joking aside, I think Track made pretty clear he did not want to role of Super Leader. Also his lack of a Twitter account and his current haircut make me question his qualifications.

     That said, T, maybe a final voice in any disputes?  Sound like a bigger deal than I hope it is, but at occasional points a single someone has to make a call. I think it's universally felt that you're the man. As a boomer, I'm sure this distresses you, but hell, 3/5 of your generation bought SUVs and moved to the suburbs, exchanged their bongs for Scotch decanters, and are more interested in retirement funds than revolution anyway. Come over to the Dark Side :)

    A word on name: and yes I'm posting in the wrong forum, but without a mod, I'm feeling naughty. - is technically unregistered, but it appears it's in a pending phase: the Internet god's give you a grace period when a domain expires to pick it back up. I have no idea when their's ends. So it's off the table. 

    We could go with if that's ok, or something else. Bear in mind, the domain name does not necessarily have to be the site name. This current site is an example, but we should have an easy and memorable domain name related to our vision for the site.

    Lets make sure we want to do this as I'll secure it and set it for auto renewal every ten years. This way, if I get lazy, pissy, or die everyone will have time to backup, pack up, and move. :P

    End of rant. I have client work to do to keep me in Laphroaig 

  • Poetry Island?
  • "The Poem, The Poem" ;)
  • We should probably keep this in the pick a name section. Did you see Mark's "Maverick" Ideas? I kind of like those too.
  • Please let me know if I can help with writing anything this week. I may be away for a few days next week.

    Let's keep going forward. I think momentum is more important than democracy or striving for perfection.

  • Cool. Most immediate needs:

    1. A list of boards and access levels
    2. A summary of guidelines
    3. a handful of set rules, like replies before stating a topic, etc. This is all stuff I can then translate into a site.
    If we don't get more name feedback. I'll run a domain name check in the AM and grab the first available thats close to one of the suggested.

    It will take a day or two before the site becomes visible to the world (but, not the bots for some strange reason). Anyway I'll stub something out and provide access once it's accessible.

    We can take it from there. If ultimately we decide on the clubhouse approach, we just lock the whole sucker down. But, I agree. I think we talked out as much as is going to be productive without something to look at.

  • Not to be the molasses in the watch-works, but I want to report with respect to the option of glomming onto an existing site.

    Of the other sites I have participated in or visited recently, I think I have found a reasonable fit.  Matty11 (Phil, we now discover after all of these years) gave me the heads-up.  He described it as a well-moderated and sparsely populated site.  I visited and drew the same conclusion.  It is call Poetry Magnum Opus.  I took the liberty of contacting and corresponding with the (chief) Moderator, Tony.  I think it is his site, lock, stock, and barrel.  A real nice guy.

    Tony consented to my sharing with you his correspondence.  Here is a part:

    PMO is mainly a showcase where members can share and discuss their work. There is a small "workshop" section for those who are interested, but it's not very popular at this time. Most of the activity takes place in the Member Poetry forums and to some extent in the Literary Discussion forum. There's a also a terrific Reference Section which a member has built, but only Judi/"Tinker" (the member who built the Reference Section) is allowed to post in those Reference forums. 

    New members are welcome, but they need to send an email using the "contact us" link, just as you did, and include an email I can reply to.

    This is a small group, but it's a good group. As far as I'm concerned it's a serious writing site, and I'd like to keep it that way. I know there are a lot of poetry forums out there. Certain features those forums have like signatures for example are okay here too, but I prefer not to have distractions like large, shiny blinking unicorn graphics in people's signatures in topics all over the forum. I haven't had to deal with that yet, because no one here has tried it. You are most certainly welcome to join; I'm just bringing up this stuff because I don't know your site, and it's possible you have a great variety of members there who have various expectations when it comes to features. I've temporarily re-enabled registration. Use the "Sign up" at the top right of the site to create your account if you would like to join. As soon as I see it, I'll approve it. 
    . . . .
    You guys are more than welcome to hang out here if you would like to. There's no pressure, and members can do as much or as little as they want. If there's any complaint (I don't mean from me but form some members) I would guess that it would be that the site is too slow, with not enough going on. My longest and best members participate elsewhere as well. They publish where they can, and they participate in forums like as well. Any complaints I've gotten in the past have been usually from members who do very little other than complain. They expect constant and copious replies for their work but almost never reciprocate. I'm sure even my best members would welcome things like poetry contests, but it's up to the members to do things like that on this site if they want them. When I've often the complaints about the site not having enough activity, I've always told them to create the activity, use the site to their benefit, and make of it what they will. It's just that I myself don't have the time or interest in creating those things, but I recognize that those are fun things, contests, prompts,etc that work for them. We have a "Poetry Playground" but it gets very little use. I myself never post there. What little I write in poetry I post in Member Poetry and do like topics about literature, poetry, art, writing in general, etc. Our site is so small that it would likely require ideas and time/effort/work from people who want things like contests and even there are probably not enough members to post entries to make contests work. For me it's about self-publishing, showcasing, discussing and archiving my own work (what little of it there is) and the work of the other members. But members are welcome create that kind of extra stuff here on the site if they would like to. 

    Whatever you decide I wish you the best.
    . . . . 
    Any other questions, please feel free to contact me again.

     - - - - - -

    It looks like a place we can go, where there is room and space for us to interact, do serious poetry, talk poetry, make use of the marvelous resource threads, and to play.  It seems like there would be no hassles from Tony about a NaPo romp and a MidSummer Poetry Fest.  I think we could fit fine and still bring our own game.  I like the writing I looked at on the site as well - I think Tony is right, there are some good poets there.  It would also mean NO ADMINISTRATIVE OR MODERATOR DUTIES for any of us.  I really, really like that part it.  

    Matty seems to be one of their mainstays, so it might be worth getting his take.  It appears that they have at least one board that is not open to non-members.  If we want more, I think Tony would be open to the request.  And I would be interested in so requesting.  

    Summary – I’m convinced this could be a workable fit.  Don’t know if its our best option.  I still want to hear all opinions and views.  There’s lots I haven’t thought through yet.

  • I believe we can create a better place T.
  • God, this going to sound sappy, but I just want to be where you guys are. My writing has tanked since my participation in MWC dropped off. Grrr! I'm not sure what's next.
  • That is a good belief to have going in.  Can we maintain, after the novelty wears off?  Maybe we can.  Just asking.
  • I just poked around a bit on Tony's site. Its nice. The service he's using is paid per active user and not cheap. I have to admit that the ability to jump right in is appealing. As stated, I'm happy to build and host a site, But I don't want to run one.

    Damn, I'm seriously up in the air. We really need to hear from the others. My criteria is software that facilitates our goals and a community like ours with us in it :P. Both building one and joining Tony's seem to achieve those goals. If we can do this without the hassle and work of actively running a site that a big plus in the join column as is the ability to focus on the meat and not having to worry about the bone.

    To reiterate, I'll build and host without an eye-blink. It's the admin stuff that scares me. I'm inclined to give Tony's site a shot, but not at the expense of a division within our ranks. I don't want to appear to be backing out. My offer for all the techie stuff stands indefinitely. I'm happy to do it.

    Sorry for the ambiguity, but it's an honest reflection of my state of mind.

  • Geez, my thoughts parallel those of Marc - I am undecided as to what route.  I do want the group to hold, if that is reasonably possible.

    How think the rest of yous??  :)
  • I hardly feel qualified to comment,  as I've almost no idea what exactly it does take to create/run/moderate a site. I've never been a mod and have no desire to, I find it difficult enough simply finding time to visit and write/crit etc. So to my view, fwiw, I'm wondering if "glomming" (as Tracy put it) onto an existing site might be best? Though the thought of our own baby from roots-up is appealing! <span>:smiley:</span> just my 2 cents. 
  • Tracy, I had a look at Tony's site too, seems interesting. I've poked around a bit on PFFA too, and PoetryCritical, years ago and didn't fall in love. Some sites are almost exhausting in their stringent, considerable crit demands, it becomes an odd state where the crits themselves are getting critiqued instead of the original work, and honest organic response is lost. About 5 years ago Seth (username Will Antcliff on PC) invited me to Poet's Graves. Seems a real nice bunch there, too, fine work by some great pens. Matty, I think you are an active member there, if I'm not wrong? I never got up and running there for some reason. I don't know, I'm rambling. Like Tracy, I've been lurking, checking around. 

    I had really enjoyed Poetry Circle for a while there, before the ownership change. It's not the same. Was interesting, though, that through it all MWC still always felt like "home" to me; been a member since 2010, it was the first poetry site I'd participated in. So sad what's happened. Though to be honest, for me it was always about the poetry, anyway, so I won't miss the other boards etc I never participated in. The best part of course was the people, anyway. Especially the poets ;)

  • I have some client stuff to knock out in the AM and then I think I'll go ahead at set up a base site.

    From my reading of the tea leaves  most of the comments, there are a couple firm, "Let's do it ourselves" and a few on the fence. That seems to put the scales on the build side. The worst case is we set one up, it sucks, and we hop over to another. So lets get something moving before we end up in the wind.
  • Good call Marc.  I am leaning toward PMO because of the certainty of what we get, and the fact that we get it immediately w/o any adieu.  

    But nothing is irrevocable -- as you say, if it sucks, if we don't make it work, then there are plenty of Plan B options, with nothing lost.

    I also like drab's idea - put it in place, make us all moderators and solve the problems as they arise.  

    I imagine there will be a private moderator lounge and spa area  which may seem goofy to start, but will be important when and if some newbies stumble in.  

    I would also like to see poetry areas etc. not open to the general public.  

    So, as far as I'm concerned, away we go.

    I'm on my way over to the names discussion now.
  • I'll be happy to follow the flow...
  • Catherine said:
    I'll be happy to follow the flow...
    Cool - can I get your proxy?  If I collect enough of them, I can be dictator.  :)

  • A poet-dictator... Could be interesting. Rule number 1 : Thou shall speak in metaphors only.
  • Can I suggest that we make 18 the minimum age for new sign-ups? Sure, they can lie but then we don;t have to have all that hoo-ha about kiddies might be reading adult content etc. Always thought that ridiculous, like saying Adults Content is going to induce teenybops to self-police rather than attracting their attention. 
  • I agree Mark.
  •  I’m following the conversation here. I just feel like I haven’t been active enough long enough now, that I don’t really have a voice.  I’ll go along with however the site unfolds. 
  • I've been following the conversation as well. I have no preferences (I'm a member of some of the sites mentioned), but essentially I didn't want to lose contact with those who write poems I like to read.
  • Kate - you are here, you have a voice.  If not, you wouldn't have gotten an invitation.
    drab proposed that we all be moderators initially.  You up for that?

    Matty - your thoughts about PMO as a landing pad for us herd of cats? [poetic cats :)]
    How about Poetry Graves?  I haven't been there lately, but i recall a poet there named, Macavityat, damn near as good a writer as Badger11.   


  • Kate said:
     I’m following the conversation here. I just feel like I haven’t been active enough long enough now, that I don’t really have a voice.  I’ll go along with however the site unfolds. 
    Nonsense! Speak and be heard! <span>:smiley:</span>
  • PG can be spiky. PMO is a ready to use site for the group because the group would not be dislodging another group. But I gather from the conversation that the preference is a new site. I have no preference myself.
  • Is there any way to set up a poll page? On important stuff. So everybody who's following the conversation can have some input. For example, I'd like to ask Aime if we can use her MWC sticky material on posting and poetry writing to use on the proposed site. Always thought it quite good and would save time and effort here.

    Marc said:
    Cool. Most immediate needs:

    1. A list of boards and access levels
    2. A summary of guidelines
    3. a handful of set rules, like replies before stating a topic, etc. This is all stuff I can then translate into a site.

     I can start writing about this stuff above but without input and opinion from everyone else it's just going to reflect my own biases. In fact, I'd like some thoughts on all this so I can get busy, without blind alleys. BTW I am going away next week so I need to get cracking.

    Point 1 is important and interesting.
    Point 2 we can maybe use Aime's stuff with her permission. If so, sorted to get going.
    Point 3 is necessary - you know, this type of thing:

    Please introduce yourself on the Welcome Board, and kindly read the guidelines before posting.    
  • Mark -  with all due respect, please keep these discussions confidential.  Aimie's stickies suck, in my view.  There are lots of poetry site guidelines available to conflate into readable and workable protocols for our site, if we decide to have our own site. .  And trust me - there are NO COPYRIGHT ISSUES  which would require consent.  

    If we are doing a new site, the procedures, rules, guidelines and protocols do not need to be finalized  before the launch.  It would be good to have something in place before the site is opened and the first newbie arrives (and wins a coupon to one free chain-saw critique).

    My thoughts.  Not trying to be obstinate.  
  • I am keeping it confidential. Which is why I mentioned the idea as an example of the need to poll and waited for feedback before doing anything. And I agree it would be good to have something in place before opening the site.
    I've posted my ideas on point 1 of Marc's three points of most immediate needs. Guidelines are up next. Anyone writing anything?
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